Oh... don't you forget that they did this training as young boys, you keep that in your head. The Kopis, an alternative to the Xiphos some Spartans selected the dreaded Kopis as their secondary weapon. 168 v. Chr. They did not have a lot of coverage and as the armour was made of bronze it would have weighed a fair amount. The Spartan Phalanx was formidable, unless the enemy managed to flank it. This weapon was seen as the quintessential "bad guys" weapon in ancient Greece. The Spartans would almost definitely win in a head on clash, the phalanx is just like the spears it is made from, devastatingly powerful head on, but weak when attacked from the side. The Spartans used the traditional greek phalanx and could easily be beaten by flanking attacks. This murder served a two-fold purpose, firstly it culled the number of rebellious young slaves. Weapons and armor where given by retired soldier so only soldiers from a rich family would be using one. Im Nahkampf haben die Makedonen mit ihren bis zu sechs Meter langen Stoßwaffen gegen die handlichen Spanischen Kurzschwerter der Römer keine Chance. To start the game, I’d like to throw in a battle fought during the first Punic War, the battle of Tunis saw a Spartan Officer called Xanthippus throw a line of elephants, supported by the old phalanx of “doru” wielding Carthaginian levies at the Roman legions and with cavalry superiority on the flanks he won a decisive victory. This implies that it is a one on one, and if the author says it is not, then he should not have named it so. Spartan never fought the Roman. Einige von Roms Bundesgenossen suchen ihr Heil in der Flucht. They were made to always compete against each other, some of the competitions included a fair amount of violence (so INDIVIDUAL FIGHTING PROWESS was VERY important). After discussing the programme with friends, we all agreed that the pairings were a bit of a letdown. The strength of the Roman legion over the phalanx was less an advantage in weaponry, than it was an advantage in formation flexibility. Im 2. YOU CAN'T, IT'S STILL METAL. Spartans held brevity of speech in high regard, meaning they let their skills do the talking. Andrew Stewart (author) from England on December 05, 2013: Interesting points thank you for the contribution. Roman legion vs Macedonian phalanx (Macedonian wars)Battle of Pydna 168 BC and battle of Cynoscephalae 197 BC Support new videos from Epimetheus on Patreon! The Legionnaire was covered in a bit more metal but he was afforded some flexibility as the plate mail was slats of steel not a solid mass like a suit of armour. Das Königreich Makedonien wird in vier unabhängige Regionen aufgeteilt und einige Jahre später als Provinz ins Römische Reich eingegliedert. kam es bei Pydna zur Entscheidungsschlacht. No heavy Spartan. The weak points on the legionnaire were at the joints. The Roman infantry met the phalanx and did not break, but were steadily forced back towards the broken ground behind them. It was a leaf shaped straight sword which couldn't really reach around a shield. So let's take a look at their skills shall we? Spear: The Spartan used their long spears to inflict mass casualties from behind their wall of bronze shields. The only gripe I had with the programme was that the actual contestants they matched them up against were ill-suited. They aren't only masters at their craft of fighting, they are masters of their small arsenal. The Spartan Xiphos was designed to go in and around the defence of a shield in line. Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World | Cole, Myke | ISBN: 9781472828422 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. Wie der römische Historiker Livius berichtet, soll die „Umzäunung von gestreckten Lanzen“ der makedonischen Formation die Römer zunächst in Angst und Schrecken versetzt haben. He would then be brutalized by his peers and turned into a Spartan warrior through years of exhaustive training. The greek phalanxes were too unwieldy to counter flanking attacks and were easily surrounded and undone. And secondly, it gave the Spartan youth a taste of bloodshed, which would accompany him until his death. That alone would be a reason they would win over a legionnarie. Athenian art frequently depicted Spartan warriors with this weapon for that reason. The Spartans didn't have a wide range of weapons to use, or rather they did, but chose to use only their Dory spear, javelin, Xiphos, and Hoplon (yes, although it's a shield, i still consider it a formidable weapon- I'll get to that in a bit). The historian Polybius details the effectiveness of the Roman legion against the phalanx. As the long phalanx line pushed forward, they began to break formation as some areas pushed forward more than others and the uneven ground began to break the formation. USING STEEL OR IRON WEAPONRY DOES NOT MAGICALLY TURN BRONZE PLATING INTO PAPER. If you don't believe me, get a steel or iron sword and try to cut or pierce a bronze medal. These guys were good- and they knew it. Even if this was an army vs army battle, it's not like the Spartans would just let an enemy flank them, they were soldiers, not stupid. Damit ist der 3. In a pitched battle, the Spartan would be victorious the vast majority of the time. Bronze was still a durable metal. At the tender young age of 7, Spartan males left home and entered the Agoge, where they were subjected to training that was anything but tender. As the Romans demonstrated an army is so much more than the sum of its parts. 168 v. Chr. The Ninja was not a warrior who fought in plain sight, so the choice did not seem a good pairing. So your saying that one Roman vs one Spartan, the Spartan is … So Hoplon- pretty overpowered. The Romans fought in the same way as the Spartans, as they both worked as a single force to crush their enemies. Is this surprising? Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World | Cole, Myke | ISBN: 9781472841124 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. EG the Rajhput somehow defeating the Romans when in fact the Romans do not fight this way, therefore armies must be compared at which point the Romans overwhelmingly dominate the field...So when comparing two warriors especially as a Spartan or Roman with the heavy infantry lockstep style, one must compare armies as a whole rather than simple individuals. Therein lies the trickery. I have decided to do a relative comparison of their merits. No different weapons for diferent classes. May 12, 2019 - Explore Jyotirvakyananda's board "Phalanx" on Pinterest. After all, the Roman Legionary was able to defeat the Macedonian Phalanx. It can shatter bones, destroy spinal columns, knock a human's skull so hard, it can kill in one blow (although a Spartan's arsenal are all for the most part, one hit, one kill weapons), it even had two straps on the inside for more maneuverability (it's big, but manageable, circular shape helped with that- and it's killing power). No Spartionnaire. Der römische Konsul Lucius Aemilius Paullus besiegt am 22. The two armies lined up, each splitting the cavalry on the wings and the Macedonian phalanx advanced. The Spartans trained and fought all their life with ONLY these weapons. #WolfAndKaisaYou´ve never seen a Rome II battle like this!! The Roman formation was way more flexible and so could manage changes in the terrain more effectively than the phalanx could. The Roman ranks used their short sword in a more hand to hand environment. Census data from the Roman Kingdom shows that the soldiers were Hoplites in a Phalanx. Sadly the Spartan Army never faced the Romans. Die Schlachtreihe einer Legion (bis zu 5000 Mann) ist in Manipel von 120 Mann unterteilt, die wesentlich mobiler agieren können als die dichten Schlachtreihen der Griechen und Makedonen. I enjoyed the way the programme was set up and the scientific approach was really well thought out and well implemented. Very little food was provided during training, as they were encouraged to steal food, but were punished if they got caught (so if you think that a Spartan was not stealthy, think again, they excel at it, part of their training was utilizing stealth in order to survive). We all know that if military discipline and fighting ability is paired with amazing physique and physical capabilities, then you've got one hell of a soldier. By the time his schooling was completed. The Spartans of old existed a few hundred years before the Roman Empire and its mighty Legionnaires had marched their way over a large portion of the civilized world. In Legion versus Phalanx Cole weighs the two fighting forces against each other. There is no doubt in my mind that Roman legions would completely obliterate the Spartans. The Xiphos excels at stabbing, with a very sharp tip made to kill an enemy quickly if given that stabbing opportunity in CQC. Spartan supremacy wained in Greece and after several defeats to the city of Thebes due to and the same inability to advance tactics and equipment they too became a fighting icon of the past. This does not really mean that the Greek Phalanx was flawed as a fighting system. Swords: Both sets of warriors used a short sword as their primary weapon in one on one contest. Sweeping an enemy off their feet wasn't hard to do either. That is, until the Romans developed the legion and cracked the phalanx. Deadliest Warrior is a horrible show because they do not treat things realistically. Rund 20.000 Makedonen sollen gefallen sein, gegenüber nur einigen hundert römischen Verlusten. He may have committed a crime and was offered the chance to use his life as a soldier rather than face a horrible death by execution. Inkompetente Führung lässt den römischen Vorstoß aber zunächst scheitern. When the Sarissas act as an anvil to the Macedonian Cavalry's hammer, nothing could stand in its way. This is a one on one fight, there is no phalanx as far as I'm concerned. Perseus kann zunächst fliehen, ergibt sich aber schließlich dem römischen Feldherrn und stirbt in Gefangenschaft. The legionaries big advantage is they can maneuver far better than a phalanx can during a battle. Sparta, unlike the other Greek city-states, was centered around a warrior culture. Apr 11, 2019 - Explore Sawyer Swenson's board "Phalanx", followed by 106 people on Pinterest. No light Spartan. Cavalrymen went into battle with their torso's bare. Heck, their women were strong, participating in javelin throwing and discus hurling so as to attract a Spartan male's attention for marriage. Whereas when King Perseus fought the Roman Legions at Pydna, he had forsaken the Combined Arms approach and reverted back to a full Phalanx force, the kind of force his ancestor King Alexander had defeated many a times with his Combined Arms approach. Instead hoplites favored the leather cuirass which gave almost equal the protection at a lower cost. As for the cavalry getting involved, iirc both sides still had their cavalry forces, so even if they had attempted the flank the legions, the Roman cavalry … Warriors would use this weapon more as an axe then a sword, inflicting nasty wounds compared to the cleaner holes made by the spear and Xiphos. Die WELT als ePaper: Die vollständige Ausgabe steht Ihnen bereits am Vorabend zur Verfügung – so sind Sie immer hochaktuell informiert. Remember the spartan hopolite formation wasn't the same formation that the Macedonians used with their extremely long pikes. In drei Kriegen kämpfte Rom gegen das Königreich Makedonien. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World. Their Dory spear was very versatile, acting as a CQC deterrent, with a weighted ball at the butt end of the spear that acted as a leveling unit when holding it up. The Roman tended to use the Gladius, this was an instrument designed to hack through limbs then run through bodies and move onto the next victim. Our last article about who would win in a battle between a Roman Legion and a Greek Phalanx has been such a success that we’ve decided to continue the series. Many people see this as a huge disadvantage, even for a one on one fight, but i see this a huge ADVANTAGE, ESPECIALLY for a one on one fight. Selbst als mit Aemilius Paullus ein erfahrener Feldherr die Führung der Legionen übernimmt, kann Perseus mit seiner reorganisierten Armee erfolgreich Widerstand leisten. Registrieren Sie sich kostenlos und erhalten Sie auf Ihre Interessen abgestimmte Inhalte sowie unsere vielseitigen Newsletter. Aber je weiter die Phalanx der Makedonen vorrückt, desto mehr verlieren ihre Krieger den Kontakt zueinander, so dass Lücken in der Schlachtreihe auftraten. Chr. With that being said, I implore everyone to stop talking about the military tactics employed by each anctient nation's armies, it does not matter!!! As far as we are aware, these warriors never met on the battlefield as the once-mighty Sparta had melted into obscurity by the time of Roman supremacy and the Greek warriors were nowhere near their legendary peak. Weitere Informationen: http://epaper.welt.de, Der Kurz-Link dieses Artikels lautet: https://www.welt.de/165797873. See more ideas about ancient warfare, ancient warriors, ancient war. The Roman shields have been more modern and advanced were stronger and larger than the Spartan shield, but the Spartan shield was built to withstand a lot of punishment. The decline of the Diadochi and the phalanx was inextricably linked with the rise of Rome and the Roman legion … The US Marine fitness programme is based on the Spartan's brutal training principle, although slaughtering an innocent member of the serving class at graduation is not recommended. The Spartan tactics were outdated pretty quickly because I think the thracians kicked their asses after the wars between Athens and Sparta. The Greek xiphos was never a primary weapon as it would take away the advantage of the phalanx. It was standard practice for a noble son of Sparta to be taken away from his family at the age of eight. The pilums might not be as effective as they were against the shields of the Gauls and Germans. The Spartans were some of the greatest soldiers of all time, but that isn't as great an advantage as people make it out to be. The Roman strategies were very devious when it comes to flanking. So by a small amount the Roman soldier should defeat a Spartan Warrior in the field of battle. Armour: The Spartan Warrior in battle wore bronze armour, please disregard what the 300 movies showed, the Spartans did wear body armour with their red capes and helmets. This content is accurate and true to the best of the author’s knowledge and is not meant to substitute for formal and individualized advice from a qualified professional. bei Pydna am Olymp in Nordgriechenland das Heer des Königs Perseus von Makedonien vollständig. Die dynamische, aggressive und auf Auflösung von Abwehrformationen angelegte Kampftaktik der Legionen, so der Historiker Armin Eich, wird Rom in den folgenden zwei Jahrhunderten die Weltherrschaft sichern. And at the beginning of the battle, the Macedonian Phalanx did succeed in pushing back the Roman Legions, but without good … What I am unable to factor in is variables such as fatigue, morale, the experience of battle and what they are fighting for. Geschichte Legion vs. Phalanx Roms neuartige Taktik vernichtete Makedoniens Heer In drei Kriegen kämpfte Rom gegen das Königreich Makedonien. The Roman is using technology more advanced than the Spartan so that alone should swing it. ). By the time the young Spartan has reached the age of eighteen, he had learned to fight, to win and to die honourably like a true Spartan. Im Folgenden begründet er seine persönlichen Spitzenreiter. THE GREEKS HAD A GREATER REACH BECAUSE OF A HUGE SPEAR AND SLINGER GAVE THEM A LITTLE ADVANTAGE. The two terms aren’t exactly comparable. Roman Legion vs Vikings: who would win? The Deadliest Warrior television programme was an enjoyable and interesting piece of entertainment. In my opinion, the biggest advantage of the Roman legions over the Macedonian phalanx was their greater capacity to adapt to changing situations. The spear and sarissa was always their primary (as written by Herodotus for example). Schon während des Krieges gegen Hannibal hatte Perseus‘ Vater Philipp V. gegen die Römer gekämpft. Nachdem er einige Erfolge gegen griechische Staaten erzielt hat, drängt Eumenes II. No variations for Spartans. for you non-americans). Another way to become a Legionnaire was if he was an auxiliary attached to a legion in the occupied territories. No Sparturion. Wie bei Kynoskephalai vertrauen die Makedonen auf ihre traditionelle Sarissenphalanx (Sarisse = Lanze), die schon die Hauptwaffe Alexanders gewesen war, während die Römer auf ihre flexible Manipular-Taktik setzen, die sie gegen die Karthager perfektioniert haben. Studies show that the only reason people switched to iron and steel is because bronze equipment used tin, and tin was becoming a shortage, so they heated fires hot enough to melt iron, and iron was an abundance, so they just stuck with it. By the time Rome came into power, Sparta was pretty much gone. This tough-love approach is effectively a basic form of eugenics policy, only the strongest will survive and they would be expected to continue Sparta's mighty military exploits. People argue that a Xiphos is like a Gladius, but with weaker stabbing power, that's not true. In diese stoßen die Legionäre vor und greifen die Makedonen von der Seite und dem Rücken aus an. In fact he has roared … Continue reading "Book Review: Legion Versus Phalanx by Myke Cole." The courage and discipline with the spear allowed the Spartan formation to become a human threshing machine. The leaf blade (as I call it) makes the Xiphos heavier nearing the sword tip, allowing for more power to be transferred to the slash, while not turning the sword into a bludgeoning weapon. Makedonischen Krieg erlitt er 197 bei Kynoskephalai eine schwere Niederlage, die ihn die Rolle als Hegemonialmacht in Griechenland kostete. Nerd isn’t the name one would generally associate with Myke Cole & from the picture on the back flap of Legion versus Phalanx, as a stranger you’d certainly think twice about calling any name he didn’t OK to his face. Gegen die gefürchtete Makedonische Phalanx setzten die Römer auf Beweglichkeit. Die Entscheidung fällt, als es den Römern gelingt, Perseus aus seinem festen Lager zu locken. On all fronts, the Roman legions would dominate on the battlefield. Beide Heere sind mit rund 40.000 Mann ungefähr gleich stark. They used the "checkerboard" formation … Legion versus Phalanx: The Epic Struggle for Infantry Supremacy in the Ancient World - Kindle edition by Cole, Myke. The Chestplate and helmet were very functional at saving injury. The Spartan warrior underwent a decade of tests, to ensure that his endurance and character were worthy of his position in the elite of his people's army. Phyrrus) What I'm trying to say is that, back in 400 BC Spartans could crash a Roman army.100-150 years later though they would propably crashed. Juni 168 v. Chr. However, Cole is a self-confessed nerd and he has roared. Would it be the same scenario for the Spartan's Phalanx? Viewers discretion is advised! The Roman victory in the Battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the Second Macedonian War between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon.The battle is considered one of the best examples of manipular Roman legion superiority over the Macedonian phalanx … Thusly it can never be tested weather the Roman Legionary or the Spartan phalangite at the height of their powers would dominate in individual or full on battle. In a one on one fight, a Spartan would kill a Legionnaire easily. von Pergamon (der Auftraggebers des Pergamonaltars) die mit ihm verbündeten Römer zur Intervention. CHAOSWEAV3R. And at the beginning of the battle, the Macedonian Phalanx did succeed in pushing back the Roman Legions, but without good support troops guarding the flanks, the Macedonian Phalanx was susceptible to being out-flanked by the more nimble and flexible Roman Legions, and they WERE out-flanked. In contrast, a phalanx only really works when the entire army is in one cohesive formation. Spartan Phalanx vs Roman Legionary, who wins? Greek Hopolites already fought against the Roman Legion, and the Greeks lost very horribly. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Spartan died 400 year before Roman Empire. The fight of the phalanx of the Macedonian Greeks (antiquated as it was) vs. the legions of the city of Rome resulted in seven major engagements in which both had three victories and three losses it was the last Hellenistic Macedonian King Perseus at Pydna where the large sarisa's ( spears ) of the Macedonian Phalanx could not maneuver quickly enough to face the fast moving legions. BRONZE IS STILL A METAL. Think about it, aside from grueling training and combat experience, these guys used the same loadout for every fight. I have decided to compare the Spartan warrior against one of Rome's finest Legionnaires. The Legionnaire joined the Roman army in several different ways. It can be swung in a way that the ball turns into a semi-mace/hammer, easily capable of crushing a skull through a helmet. ), Die traditionelle Waffe der Makedonischen Phalanx war ihre bis zu sechs Meter lange Sarisse, Quelle: Wikipedia/F. Shields: The Spartans main armour was their bronze shields which were the ancient equivalent of a tank when used in a large group. He was either forced into it as he was the second or third son in a poor family. Diese erklären Makedonien ohne triftigen Grund 171 den Krieg. Whereas when King Perseus fought the Roman Legions at Pydna, he had forsaken the Combined Arms approach and reverted back to a full Phalanx force, the kind of force his ancestor King Alexander had defeated many a times with his Combined Arms approach. The Romans had spears but their fighting style was to use it more as a defensive or close quarter combat deterrent. They threw Javelins as ranged weapons (so if someone says they don't have range, show them this comment). They knew how to fight, and they had their fair share of outfoxing an enemy army. Late reader here. Also, the Romans used cavalry, Spartans did not. Google the pre-marian battle tactics to see how smart the Romans were. No one expects it to be used as a weapon, and it being used as a weapon can allow the element of surprise. What if the two would go into battle against each other? Hoplites rarely actually used the bronze cuirass as it would weigh down the soldier packed in tight formations. Comments that Romans had better equipment and would have weighed a fair amount recruited betallions the., meaning they let their skills shall we 5'10 '' to 5'11 '' through rough estimates from equipment. The traditional greek phalanx and could easily be beaten by flanking attacks were! Take away the advantage of the Gauls and Germans one Roman vs one Spartan, the Legionnaire were the! Could n't roman legion vs spartan phalanx reach around a Warrior culture Romans had spears but fighting! 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'S take a look at their craft of fighting, they are masters of their small arsenal their.. Protection at a lower cost and combat experience, these guys used the traditional phalanx... Was flawed as a weapon, and it being used as a system...